EdTech Startup Showcase

[00:00:00] Welcome to the EdTech Startup Showcase, an original series produced by the Be Podcast Network. On this series, we spotlight and amplify some of the most innovative emerging companies in EdTech. We also have the opportunity to speak with a number of the educators who put those tools into action to support student success.

I'm your host today, Barb Flowers, a former elementary principal turned life coach, and I also host a couple of other podcasts on the network, The Principal's Handbook and The Teacher Burnout Podcast. On these shows, we discuss how to empower school leaders and teachers to improve their confidence Decrease educator overwhelm, and ultimately reconnect everyone in schools with their passion and purpose.

In this series, I think we'll explore some relevant ideas on these same topics, and now I'm pleased to introduce today's guest. I'm here today with Shannon Putman, and we're here to talk about virtual reality and what that can look like in a high school [00:01:00] setting. So, really quick before we get started, Shannon, can you just tell us Talk to us a little bit, um, just in a couple sentences about your background and education, and it's really cool where you ended up.

So what you're doing right now.

Yeah, sure. Thank you so much. my undergrad was not in education, so I had the opportunity to join, a new special education classroom in Jefferson County Public Schools in Louisville, Kentucky. And after like two days, I realized that that was where I was meant to be.

So when the teacher left after the first year, I went back to the University of Louisville and got my master's in special education and was fortunate enough to teach that class for nine years. And then, uh, through that is when I discovered the power of, immersive virtual reality. And that's when I went back to, again, to the University of Louisville and get my PhD in technology as educational interventions focused in virtual reality.

And just been working ever since to try to bring this technology to [00:02:00] students and, anybody that I can, because it can be so unbelievably life changing.

Yeah, and so you're doing some really cool things with virtual reality that I had never thought of schools using it for, so I'm excited for this conversation today.

I just want to start by talking about how can schools effectively incorporate these virtual field trips and job shadowing experiences into career exploration programs because, you know, it's hard for kids to know what they want to do. So how can they really use VR for that?

I love the opportunity that it gives us because we can expose students to careers that they would have never even thought of, and that teachers would have never even thought of for their students.

And if anybody remembers those, you know, old school tests where you answer the questions and then you find out, like, I'm like, I should have been a forest ranger, which I would have loved that, don't get me wrong, but instead of telling us what we would be good at, it allows students to actually experience it.[00:03:00]

And the difference with. Virtual reality is that they can actually put themselves in that situation. And when the, the program is done effectively, uh, they can learn from the actual employee about what the job is like. And I think that's a, a fantastic. component that a lot of people don't think of right off the bat, especially with how, uh, CareerViewXR has done their experiences.

They show the whole day of the employee. So most places don't have punch cards anymore. You know, you have to sign in on a computer and they show the, you know, the auto mechanic who has to come in and, Check out his Excel spreadsheet and use the spreadsheet to do everything. And so when kids are like, oh, when am I ever going to need this?

Well, here you go. This is exactly when you're going to need this in your everyday career.

Yeah, I love that. And just the thought that they get to actually see that because it can be really hard for schools to coordinate where kids are going and seeing different careers and [00:04:00] finding those places for them to actually job shadow and things like that.

So what a great opportunity for kids to have that. experience. Um, just from what you've been doing, what are some best practices for making sure that these virtual experiences are engaging and students get the best, um, best experience and most information out of them?

I approach it from, I think, a different aspect than what, so far, the industry has typically done.

Um, and I think that's because I was a classroom teacher, so I was in the trenches, as they say, so I get it. And, until teachers and educators. I like to say educators, because it needs to be everybody at the school. Um, in our project, we have, on our virtual reality team, we have custodians, we have, cafeteria employees that are all a part of the team, because it really is everybody.

So, when they learn how, when educators learn how to actually integrate it into their instruction as opposed to just [00:05:00] being spoon fed everything. Like, there's a big push in the industry to have everything already all set and have all the lesson plans and here it is, look, here's your set of STEM lessons, here's your set of these lessons.

And I'm like, that doesn't actually teach them how to use the tech. And so in, in, in order for it to be continually effective and long term change, we actually have to change our pedagogy. And so I focus on really instructing the educator how to use what they already have, but in different innovative ways.

And one with the career exploration that was perfect was I had a carpentry teacher. And I asked him, what's something you want to do with your students that you can't? He's like, I want to put them 300 feet up in the air and make them tie their own safety harness and use their tools because he had students that graduated successfully.

And the only job they could get was on, you know, a tall building and they couldn't do it. And they ended up losing their job, feeling like failures, everything. And so in the suite of experience, there was a wind turbine [00:06:00] technician. And so I'm like, well, what if you put them on the edge through, you know, 300 feet up in there on the edge of a wind turbine?

He's like, Done. And I never, until I had that conversation with him, as great as I am, I never would have anticipated using wind turbine with carpentry.

So

understanding that we already have what we need while we continue to develop more experiences and things, but how can we use what we already have in ways that will affect and help our students?

Yeah, and as you're talking, how crazy that they get that experience of being high up in the air, you know, from virtual reality. Like, it's just, it's such a cool technology that, you know, obviously when I was in the classroom and even as a principal, I didn't have teachers using it, so how amazing that we can put students in those situations in the school setting.

That's, It's just unbelievable.

Exactly. And we've had, and I was just to that point, we have had multiple studies that have shown when certain thresholds are [00:07:00] met, the brain can't distinguish between the real world and the virtual world. So that's how effective it actually can be.

Well, and even in, I'm a life coach and in life coaching, they talk about this idea of visualization.

It brings the same neural pathways to the brain as actually doing something. That's why visualization is so powerful. So I could see that with virtual reality. If you're, it's like a visualization that you're actually seeing and feeling like you're doing it. And so the more you do it, you are getting those experiences as if you're doing it.

So that is really fascinating that your brain does that and can adapt like that. What are some innovative ways that educators can use technology to connect students with those professionals, in those career choices, even just for virtual mentoring or Q& A so that they can ask questions about the field, um, and get inside information about what it would like be like to be in that field, not only seeing their experiences, but talking to those people as well.

immersive virtual reality offers us [00:08:00] a, an experience that we can't get through any other platforms. So even in zoom and everything else, you know, we know that, it is the zoom fatigue effect was a real thing. We saw it during coven and with virtual reality, you can create actual. Authentic emotional connections.

And so when students, um, I've had students collaborate with employees through, a platform such as Engage and they have a Kia car dealership in there. So they can not only. Practice what it's like to even go into a car dealership, because so many of our students nowadays, they're from the, if you can't text it, they don't do it generation.

So just the thought of walking in and asking about a car shopping experience, they're like, Oh, no, I want to do it all online. So, uh, that right there, but then that leads into, okay, I've had students connect with actual executives from Kia, and then they can have internships, do things, design cars and actually see it.

And [00:09:00] it, it provides you with this freedom where, okay, maybe I'm not as intimidated because they're not actually seeing me. They're seeing a virtual representation of me so I can be myself. But also you have the ability, especially with, you know, 3D spatial audio and everything, when you're in a virtual space, if somebody is upset, you can actually go comfort that person and it be personal, like nobody else can hear it.

So you can create an authentic emotional connection. through virtual reality that isn't available in other platforms. and so that, I think, is a piece that Often gets overlooked, uh, because it's like, Oh, it's so cool. You can do this. You can do that. Yes, you can, but you can actually create these engagements.

So then now when I am, practicing presenting, you know, my sales pitch, my elevator pitch, you know, whatever it might be, I've done it, I've practiced it, and I've gotten that emotional feedback and input. And now when I take it into the quote unquote physical world, I've already practiced it and it gives [00:10:00] me that confidence to be able to perform and know that, all right, this is what I need to do because let's face it, public speaking isn't, with everything else that teachers have and all the other standards, it's kind of fallen back and it's now needed more than ever.

Yeah. And like you're saying some life skills integrated into that as well, which is really neat. how can virtual career exploration tools like you're talking about and those experiences really be tailored to address diverse needs and interests of students. So it could be underrepresented groups of students or students with disabilities who may not have opportunities to shadow and may not even.

one, have the confidence because they don't see people like them in different positions or, um, know what they want to do because they don't have those mentors in place or have equal access to careers. So how does the VR help with that?

Yeah. So one of the things that I always talk about is, is my biggest is access and accessibility.

And [00:11:00] so those students that you talked about that are typically underrepresented or overlooked, just because I think people don't, No, I was a special ed teacher. So special ed is incredibly important to me. So, uh, showing different careers that are accessible for all students, no matter, you know, what their, disability or what their current level is.

And so, being able to show, look, yes, I can do careers like this. I, there are people like me that, um, do this type of job. And I think that's on the companies, on the software creators, I think. They do a great job of showing your typical job. And this is what it is. If you're this person, well, what if you're not this person?

What if you are a minority? What if you are a woman? What if you're in a wheelchair? What if you need a little bit more processing time? Things like that. So it is really on these software companies to actually represent full spectrum of people. And until we start to do that, we haven't quite made a change yet.

So that's what I keep [00:12:00] pushing for is showing all different careers and then. You know, research shows we already know the large gap between exposure to careers and actual ability by, you know, black students, especially in STEM. I still get it on a daily basis as a woman in tech and so just. Seeing people that look like them, um, Starboard Academy is a great program and they, focus on, you know, different career type of, uh, work with the space program.

And so seeing, you know, Latinx astronauts, seeing black male and female astronauts and understanding that I can be a part of the space program, no matter what I look like is huge. And, as that has been continuing to grow. virtual reality does it in a way that, really puts them in their shoes. And then also the safety aspect.

So there are a lot of jobs that our students will be when they graduate, you know, because it's classroom to career. It doesn't always have to be college, but it might be in a factory [00:13:00] and you have to be 18 to even see the factory floor or, you know, you don't get to go because of safety, things like that.

We can take them to all these places that would otherwise, you know, be closed off for them and really show them what it's like. Like, okay, this is what you want to do. This is how it's going to be.

Yeah, I, I think that that's so important. And I, like, if you're thinking about minority students or, you know, students who have even, grown up with different socioeconomic statuses, right? Like, It's a cycle. They only see what their parents have done. And so, and even, you know, for me, like my parents never went to college.

And so them guiding me, they couldn't, they didn't know how to guide me. You know, they're like, go be a teacher, go be a nurse, something like that. And so I think it's the same, right? If you come from a family who's never had a career, maybe they're just trying to make ends meet and they've never had even a career in some sort of vocational program, anything like that, it's hard to picture yourself in that.

And so having those [00:14:00] role models. So how do you think this helps with different socioeconomic statuses as well?

It's been huge. I've even seen the impact right away right here in Kentucky. because you know, being from New York and then coming here and seeing, especially through this project, seeing all these different counties and experiencing different cultures.

one thing that I had not anticipated and I didn't realize was this feeling of staying local. Um, a lot of, you know, The county's maybe they're not any jobs, but it's also seen as, you know, disobeying the family or, you know, betraying the family to leave even the county. And so you stay even if there aren't any jobs or anything.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that in any way. I think it's great. I didn't want to leave. My mom's the one that pushed me to go to college. But if you're not going to leave and there aren't opportunities, maybe we can at least bring them to you to show you opportunities and give you ideas of thinking on different things.

And, you know, maybe [00:15:00] through that career exploration, you find out, oh wait, there are actually more opportunities than I realized. And it's just about finding them and still being able to, keep the family ties and, and, and keep all of that because it is, it's a culture. And, especially when we talk about, like you said, socioeconomic status, there's schools that don't even get funding for field trips anymore.

So, you know, buses have gotten more expensive, all that kind of stuff. So if they can't, you know, physically go to these locations, well, you know, We can actually give them that experience and expose them to all these other things and then without having, money as a barrier, which should never be a barrier to education.

I mean, that's a whole other conversation that we're not obviously going to get into, but, you know, there's, we, It goes back to, we should be able to show our kids the world, and like, I miss being that age when anything was possible, you had it all in front of you, and like, you know what, I could be anything.

Why not me? And I want every one of those students to feel that, no matter what it is, I [00:16:00] That there's something for them that they can succeed in and have that confidence and that joy because let's face it, you know, they're gonna be doing it for a long time. And and some of the ways is amazing as it is set up.

A lot of these students have to decide in 9th grade or earlier. you know, what career track they want to go in. And I can tell you right now, I didn't know anywhere near in ninth grade what I wanted to do. Well, I knew I wanted to be a dolphin trainer at SeaWorld, but after that, I was like, all right, well, you know, what am I going to do with my life?

So, being able to experience that it's just so different than just watching, just watching somebody do it, but then also you doing it. And, um, it just, it's different. It's a different level and, can just. open up so many things for students who would have never otherwise had the opportunity.

And I love that you talk about it giving kids hope and like that ability to think you could do whatever, you know, you, you really dream that you can because It's really sad to me and being in elementary, I saw that by [00:17:00] fifth grade, like, especially if you struggled in school, like you, you just give up that you feel like nothing matters because you already have such negative thoughts about yourself, you know, if, if things aren't handled correctly as you're going through school, or I see that a lot with kids in a resource room where they feel different than others and things like that.

And so having these opportunities where you can show them, you know, with your skills and your strengths. These are careers that you could do. I could see how that could just give kids so much hope.

Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, isn't that the point? Like, I, and being in elementary as well, you know, I had students that, you know, I, I had students that would tell me, Oh, I want to do this before I turn 18.

And I, I'd say, well, why before you turn 18? And they'd say, well, cause that's when I have to go to jail. And I was like, What they didn't realize that it was a choice or right without getting into it, you know, um, they didn't realize that they just thought that that's what they did. And it's like, no, these are all things that you can do.

You know, [00:18:00] um, I have students that live a mile from the Ohio River and I've never seen it, you know, so even just letting them go, you know, virtually fishing, something like that, that, can show them, look at the, these are all the exciting things.

And, I feel so, so many times by the time they get done, they're so beaten down and already feeling defeated. It's like, let's bring some of that, you know, enjoyment and hope back. And, and even like you said, in elementary, they start working on their high school applications, you know, because with different programs, even in a public school, they have magnet schools, you know, and you have to apply.

And so I'm like, Ooh, you know, if you had told me that what I was doing in third grade would affect me in high school, A, I wouldn't get it at all. I would never be able to understand the importance of that. And B, I'd be like, why am I already worried about that? You know, I'm, I'm nine. Like, I hate to write.

Yeah. So if I'm a teacher who, you know, I'm listening to this and I'm like, this sounds amazing, but I'm also terrified of technology. [00:19:00] What advice would you give? What would you suggest? Transcribed

Yeah, and I totally get that. Uh, so the biggest thing would just be to make sure you, you know, you do your, your research.

So, talking to somebody like me, I think, um, would be, the first step. If I, I'd love it to be me because I just love talking about this and you've seen I can go on forever. So, I'm always like, you know, cut me off. But, just because the technology is changing so quickly. Quickly, you know, new headsets come out and people get confused.

Like, what's this? What's that? You know, what has passed through? Do I need to pay for that? All these kind of things. It's just to, to talk to somebody or really research and find out, all right, what is it that I want to do? And how can I use the technology? And so, um, Going along with that, it's A, not being intimidated like you said, but just having an open mind, you know, being willing to understand that it, you know, there's so many different things you can do, but like I said, when you talk to somebody who's been there, who's done it, I've already kind of worked through all the, the [00:20:00] muck, so you don't have to, really, you know, I know how to make it so that you can, you know, manage all of your headspace, Sets from your computer or your phone.

And if you never wanna put on a headset as a teacher, you don't have to. you know, I know all these things and all these ways that you can do it, without having to actually use the tech yourself if you don't want to. And there's a lot, there's a great community out there of educators and, and, and VR and, Always willing to support. So really just find that community of us and, don't be afraid to ask for help. And especially if you ask us virtually, it can be even less intimidating. So, I say just, just check everything out because they're also too, another thing that I don't think the educational system has understood yet is that some of the software for this is going to be a little bit more expensive than your classic, tablet app because it is a 3D environment.

It does take a lot more to create these, um, experiences, but. The initial sticker price that can kind of shock people and intimidate them away from it, doesn't [00:21:00] explain and show the full picture of what you would be saving in other ways. So that's why it's great to talk to somebody. I'm also really good at finding ways to make it work within a budget, because I know what it's like not to have a budget.

So just using that help that's out there and, and, and understanding that, you know, we're here to help and, Those of us that are in it do it because we love it and, uh, we truly want to help and, you know, the only guiding question of my entire business has been what's best for students. And that's what I always go by and that's what I'll continue to go by and students can be of any age, you know, it's of no consequence.

That could be birth to death, uh, and really the subject matter is of no consequence either because there's something out there for everything. And when people ask me, what can I do with VR? That's the wrong question because I always say anything. The better question is what are you doing and I'll tell you how VR can fit into it.

And so then when you can make that shift from what can it do for me to how can I fit it into what I'm doing and how can I use it to [00:22:00] benefit me. That's when the real kind of magic happens with it.

Well, awesome, Shannon, and thank you so much for being on today. How can people reach out to you if they're interested in learning more, talking more with you one on one?

Yeah, I would love it. I have a website. It's puttmanxrconsulting. com. Uh, they can also, uh, find me on LinkedIn and, I'm getting better with it, but if they message me on there and I don't respond right away, they can email me. Um, it's just Shannon at puttmanxrconsulting. com. but, uh, yeah, they just, anytime I, I love to talk, And I'd love to help.

And it, uh, I, it, I learn every day too from educators. They'll be like, Oh, I did this. And I'm like, I never even thought of that. That's genius. So, I'm happy to talk anytime they can reach out. And I would, uh, love to have a conversation with anybody. So I appreciate you taking the time to talk to me and letting me share that.

Oh, of

course. This is such an amazing topic. And like I said, something I knew nothing about, so it was really [00:23:00] great to just learn about this and all the, like you said, you know, we talked about career exploration, but that's just a tiny bit of what VR can do. And so if it can do that, think of all the ways in your school that, you know, you could implement VR for whatever you're trying to do, um, for whatever age range that you have in your school.

So lots of great things here. Thank you, Shannon, so much for being on the podcast. Well, thank you so much. You too. It was a, it was a joy and an honor.

So thank you for having me.

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